Sunday Homily 9-4-11, 23rd Ordinary Time

 

 

 

Sophia says, "Hi, Everybody, Welcome in."

 

 

Readings:

Jeremiah  20, 7-9,    You duped me, Lord, and I let myself be duped

Psalm 63,   My soul is thirsting for you, O Lord my God.

Roman s 12, 1-2,  Do not conform yourselves to this age.

Matthew 16, 21-27,  Whoever wishes to come after me, must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.  

 

 

 

And Harper, too, says, "Come in, Folks.  Take this chair."

 

Jeremiah observations–

What:  I think Jeremiah is my second favorite O.T. prophet, behind Isaiah, mostly because he makes whining and complaining into an art form.  I need to take lessons from him.  Not that he did not have enough to complain about.   Jeremiah is one of the Big 3 with Isaiah and Ezekiel.  He is called the ‘broken hearted prophet.’  Here is why.

Time:  Jeremiah lived and prophesied in Jerusalem around 600 before Christ.  Why is this important?  It is some 50 years before the Babylonian Captivity.  Jeremiah had a heart rending life predicting punishment of death and destruction for the Hebrews for their sinful, selfish ways.  Jeremiah predicted disaster, and disaster came in the person of Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon-Bagdad.

Jeremiah wore a wooden yoke as a visual aid to his message.  He may have been ultimately killed by the Hebrews.

Today:  Jeremiah is in top form.

 

 

 

The Best Music, even though they are slacking off, Wendy & Ben.

 

Deny Yourself, Take up Your Cross, and Follow Me

I want to talk this morning, folks, about the line in Matthew, Deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me.  I confess right off, I hate this line.  Can you imagine a loving God creating people to deny themselves and take up a life of suffering? 

Matthew’s line can be very tricky.  It can be approached healthily or in a rather sick way.  I can witness to the latter in my own life.  I have already described how as a young Jesuit I was expected to do penance and deny myself in various ways, like the practice of using little whips to scourge our backs and little chains with points to wear around our thighs.  This was supposed to bring me closer to God.

 

 

Two Very Special People, Wendy & Brandon 

 

 

I can laugh at this now, but I am humbled at how easily I can be snookered.  When I read this line and others like it in the Bible and remember my experiences, I now see the presence of an ancient philosophy that still influences a lot of religious activity today.  The philosophy: dualism. 

The idea is simple.  Reality comes in pairs, hot & cold, dark & light, order & chaos, and, in particular for this discussion, body & soul or flesh & spirit.  So far so good. 

 

 

 

Our Candle Lighter of The Week, Sophia (Ben's daughter).

 

The trouble enters with a judgment about the flesh & spirit.  Specifically, flesh is bad, spirit is good, superior.  Consequently, so that my spirit may reach an elevated plane of purity & perfection, and ultimately closer union with God, I attempt to subdue my flesh by disregarding the body's needs, ultimately aiming to live without it.  Do not give in to pleasure.  How about that!

A couple of facts.  Dualism is identified as far back as 1000 years B.C. and came out of Zoroastrianism, a religion that worshiped one god and believed in an afterlife.  Did it come from Egypt as so much did at that time?  No, from Persia, the area we call Iran today.  Zoroastrianism was widespread until Muhammad arrived on the scene around 650 and established Islam.  Through the ages lots of people picked up on dualism, for example, Plato, Augustine, Descartes, and the early Christians, like Matthew.

However, there is a healthy approach to the line.  A story to exemplify the healthy.

 

 

 

 

Welcome back Vivi, Quera, & Mikala, Teresa and Tom's grandkids.

 

 

Way back when I was living at Jesuit and working as a psychotherapist, a single, divorced mother came with her son, Michael, one day and basically said, “help!”  She had a really active boy about 3^rd grade.  He and his neighbor buddy, a black kid, used to race around our neighborhood and the high school on their bikes.  Great kids.

The years passed and I got to know Michael really well.  One afternoon when Michael was in 7^th grade at St. Monica, we were watering trees with the white truck and the old red water trailer.  I don’t remember who was driving us along the medians, but at one point I can remember to this day, he said to me that if he did not make the entrance exam at Jesuit, his life was no good.  

 

 

 

Let me not ask what these 3 are up to.

 

I did not say anything at the moment.  But later I told him that thinking was baloney.  I said Jesuit did not want kids who said their lives were no good.  If he made it, Jesuit would be a better place.  If he did not, another school would be a better place because they had a tremendous gift in their school. 

He did not get in. 

So Michael went to Bishop Dunne.  He played sports, worked hard to make good grades, and kept in contact with a neat guy who was the admissions director at Jesuit.

He got in as a sophomore.  He did excellently.

 

 

 

The Offertory with Louis & Sandra, John & Mary Jane

 

Next Michael wanted to go to A&M and join the corps.  He did not get in.  He does not test well.  So he went to Tech and joined the Air Force ROTC.  After 4 years there he invited me to the ceremony where he was to get his lieutenant bars.  

The ceremony was in a big auditorium.  Michael was the last.  On the stage with him were his mom and his girl friend, Lydia.  At one point in his personal ceremony Michael turns to the whole auditorium, asks their patience for a moment, turns back to Lydia, drops on a knee, and asks her to marry him. 

Talk about blowing the roof off of the auditorium.  Everybody went crazy.  She said yes. 

 

 

 

It does not get better than this, Vivi, Quera, and Mikala.

 

Now, Michael has long finished his flight training, part of which took place right up at the scene of the Hotter N’ Hell, Wichita Falls.  He has been stationed all over the world, like Aviano, Italy, where we got the name of our dog, Aviana, after a visit there.   He has a little boy and a girl, a beautiful wife in Lydia, and a platinum career as a jet pilot.  

Michael has denied himself a lot of quite legitimate pleasures to achieve some healthy goals.  Even now he continues to keep himself in good physical and intellectual shape.  

So, how do you deny yourself and take up a cross? 

 

 

Best buddies, Sophia and Emma.
 

 

Readings: Acts 3, 13-19; Psalm 42, Lord, let your face shine on us; 1 John 2, 1-5; Luke 24, 35-48.

Acts: A review–

Author:  Luke, the author of both The Gospel and Acts.  Today we get Luke twice, in the first reading with Acts and in the last reading, today's Gospel. 

While we are on the subject, Luke's gospel story today is a compliment to last week's gospel story by John.  Both John & Luke find the apostles in a locked room, Jesus appears, and he says, "Peace."  Both focus on the physical, last week on Thomas demanding to see the wounds, this week Jesus eating.  What does he eat?   Why so much focus on the physical? 

Date:  written about 40-60 years after Jesus death, i.e., ca. 70-100 A.D.

Subject: Two points of organization.  One is that chapters 1-8 focus on the resurrection, ascension, and Pentecost, plus their effect on the community.  The rest of the book, i.e., chapters 9-28, Paul.  The other point of organization goes from Jerusalem, to Palestine, to the whole world with the news about Jesus.

Today's Selection:  The selection today is somewhat backwards compared with last week.  Last week, chapter 4; this week, chapter 3. 

The scene is this, just like last week when we read from chapter 4.   Peter & John have just healed a lame man at the door of the temple.  The people come rushing to see.  Peter & John say, "Hey, we did not do it."  In fact, Jesus did it and he has been raised from the dead.  This caught the attention of the priests and authorities who had the two arrested and put before the council.  They are released the next day after a warning not to talk about this Jesus.  Then they return to the local community of believers. 

Last week we tuned in at this point and the reading focused on how the community attempted to live a communal life, everyone sharing.  Today we go back to the time just after the healing of the lame man.  The people have rushed to see the phenomenon and ask Peter & John to explain.  Today's reading is their explanation.

Who Needs to be Richest or Prettiest?

After all the academic background & history on the readings today, I would like to propose we have a homily lite.

Consequently, I have five questions.  See if you can answer them.

Name 5 wealthiest families in Dallas.

Name 4 Miss Americas.

Name 3 Heisman Trophy winners.

Name 2 winners of, take your pick, best actor/actress, Dancing with the Stars, American Idol.

Name 1 recent MVP in either the NFL or NBA.

Anybody got 15 names?  I would suspect that most of you, like me, cannot name more than one or two people on this list, maybe none in some categories.  Folks, these people are not slugs.  They are probably the best in their fields.  But who knows, and who cares?  50 years from now who will remember these people?  Point: all this wealth, all this beauty, all this talent makes what kind of difference in your world? 

Now let me put five more question to you.  See if you can answer them.

Name your 5 best friends. 

Name 4 teachers who positively affected your life.

Name 3 who compliment you.

Name 2 models or mentors in your life.

Name 1 person whose courage you admire.

Got 15 people?  Difference?  What makes the difference?  The latter people make or have made your life, you richer?  So, what if you forget about being the richest, the prettiest, the best, and focus on making life richer for those around you and those following you?

How?  We planted trees for a couple of decades here.  Remember the Trinity River trash pick up organized by Kovatis?  Habitat.  Coaching, teaching.  Collin County Adult Clinic.

So, what are you doing?

AUDIO: http://mysite.verizon.net/reso7rjy/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/2009-04-26.mp3

Picture 1:  Mass with Kevin helping

Picture 2:  Birthday: John Simari, Denni Zurchin with Chloe, & Kevin

Picture 3:  Audry & Grandma Jo

Picture 4:  Alexandra with dad David

 

Grace reading from the Great Prophet, Isaiah.

 

Readings:

Isaiah 9, 1-6,    The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light, upon those who dwelt in the land of gloom a light has shown.  (Wow!  Beautiful)

Psalm, 96,  Today is born our savior, Christ the Lord.

Reading 2: The Road Less Taken

Luke 2, 1-14,   The Nativity story.   (Lovely)

 

 

 

John reading The Road not Taken, one of The Greats.

 

Frost, Robert: The Road Not Taken  ( Reading #2)

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood

        And sorry I could not travel both   

And be one traveler.       Long I stood

         and looked down one as far as I could,

         to where it bent in the undergrowth,

Then took the other, as just as fair,       

         And having perhaps the better claim,

         Because it was grassy and wanted wear.

         Though as for that the passing there

         Had worn them really about the same.

And both that morning equally lay

         In leaves no step had trodden black.

         Oh, I kept the first for another day!

         But knowing how way leads onto way,

         I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh

         Somewhere ages and ages hence:

         Two roads diverged in a wood, and I–

         I took the one less traveled by,

         And that has made all the difference.

 

 

 

Claire reading the Nativity Narrative from Luke.

 

Homily, 12/24/18

Since November when this crazy lumbar stenosis smacked  me, I have had more doctor appointments than ever in my life, including  getting my two nice titanium hips.

On one occasion I was going to Presby’s office building 4, on the south east corner of Walnut Hill & Greenville.  This was my second visit to this building.  Parking is all on the ground level, with the 5 or 6 story building over the parking. 

 

 

The Nativity story with Leo as Joseph and Zoe as Mary.

 

This morning Rosemary drove me over, dropped me fairly near the big glass doors, two sets of them.  It is freezing, darkish, and windy like being in a wind tunnel.

As I approach the first set of doors, though still 30 yards away, this tall,  strong looking black lady in a security uniform comes running from the inside, opens one of the doors wide and says cheerily, Good Morning and Welcome In.

 

 

Who dat??  That is the Baby Jesus, otherwise known as Betsy!

 

I laugh despite being in a world of pain from the pinched nerve.  I thank her.  And as I pass in front of her at the door, I tell her, “I am finding it hard to have people opening doors for me.  I ain’t used to this.”

So I go upstairs, check with my doctor, and return to the lobby in maybe an hour.  I sit on a marble ledge, call Rosemary, and wait.

 

 

 

Sez Luke, "Hey, I'm an Angel!

 

Suddenly coming in through the doors from the outside, my black security lady appears.  I wave at her and she walks toward me.  She says, “You remember what you said to me that it is hard to let others hold the door for you.  Well, I look at you and I know you.  I know that you have opened a lot of doors for other people to walk through.   For me it is an honor to be able to pay it back just a little and hold the door for you.”

 

 

Does it get better than this ??!!

 

I was stunned, I was touched, I was in tears.

Are people not good!

Have a wonderful Christmas.

 

 

The Best Team!

Readings:  Exodus 22, 20-26; Psalm 18; 1 Thessalonians 1, 5-10; Matthew 22, 34-40

Exodus: One of the great books of the Bible, the second book of the O.T.  The name  means 'departure' and refers to one of the most important event in Israel's history, the departure of the people of Israel from Egypt where they had become slaves after going there to escape drought in their own land.

Our selection has Yahweh speaking the law to the people as they wander around in the desert.

The Great Commandments

A priest in Chicago who is a psychologist and whom I admire, Andrew Greeley, tells the story of a woman who had three or four kids.  As she was bringing up the family she noticed that so many of the children around her were rebellious, disrespectful, lazy, and without discipline.  She determined that her kids would be respectful, active, and disciplined. 

She demanded they assume responsibility in the house for various chores, they had strict curfews and limits, and they were disciplined when they failed or were disobedient.  Time outs, privileges taken away, groundings, no TV, no cell phones, and so forth.  All were used to maintain discipline. 

The kids grew up, were successful, and all moved away.  Seldom did Mom hear from them.  One day when she was talking with her youngest, a girl, who was celebrating her birthday, the mom asked her why she and the others never kept in touch.  Had she not trained them all well for life and taught them discipline and integrity?  "Yes, Mom," the girl replied.  "But I never felt you loved us. I was a project."

Matthew in today's gospel explains what the two greatest commandments are, love God & love your neighbor as yourself.  Over the years I have taken a psychological approach to these two, noting that there really are three.  The third command is implicit, love yourself.  My observation is that, first, loving myself is often the hardest, and second, it is the foundation of the other two.  Can't love God or anybody else very well if I hate myself.

Today, however, I would like to make some observations about two groups of people, the Pharisees and the neighbor.  This will give you an idea why the question of the Pharisees is important and a trap. 

About the Pharisees, a rather crazy group of people not even absent from our own times.  The word means 'separate.'  The Pharisees saw themselves as separate and so did the people.  They were separate because they obsessively and rigidly observed the law. 

Their goal was to win Yahweh's favor by being perfect and at the same time act as an example of righteousness to the people. 

Their road map was the law.  Guess what the law meant for the Jew of this time.  First, there were 613 commandments, then 365 prohibitions (one for every day of the week), and finally, 268 prescriptions.  Total: over 1200 rules for behavior, and the reading from Exodus provides some examples.  The Pharisees studied and meditated on these laws.  The poor people, the people who had to work could never hope to focus on all these laws, which is why the Pharisees were mostly rich and, therefore, separate from the people and in their eyes superior to the people.

The pharisees' struggle: are all laws equal because they all come from Yahweh, or are some more important than others.  It was this question they studied, meditated upon, and argued over.  Which leads us to today's encounter with Jesus. They are trying to trap Jesus, make him choose one of these 1,200 laws.  He sidesteps the trap and pronounces the two laws which sum up all the laws. 

The sad side of the pharisees' life style is that they are obsessed, and that is just unhealthy.  Religious obsession can be as harmful to your health as drugging, drinking, or smoking.  They have OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder.  Love is minimal here.  In fact, fear is probably the motivator.  Whatever, the relationship is between God and the law observer is not the standard that Jesus is suggesting.

Which leads to the neighbor, the person I am challenged to love as I love myself.  Two observations.

First, there are two groups of my neighbors, immediate and remote.  The immediate neighbor is my family member, my village neighbor, the people I encounter daily or regularly. 

The remote neighbor is the alien mentioned in the the Exodus reading, the kid being made to be a soldier in Darfur, the mother in Guatemala, our mother & daughter in Cuernavaca, Mexico, the sick who come to CCAC.  I would even suggest that the pharisee is my neighbor. 

Secondly, while Jesus says that I am challenged to love my neighbor as myself in this setting, in another place he raises the stakes.  He says to love my neighbor as "I have loved you."  Pretty lofty demand.  Infinite demand, infinite acceptance. 

I am convinced that loving a god we cannot see or touch, if that is possible, is built on loving others, which is built on loving myself, something the sad, obsessed pharisee cannot do.  Thank God that none of you are pharisees, or you would not be here.  However, we can follow the footsteps of the mother who failed to show how much she loved her kids. 

As we head into a marvelous time of our year, Thanksgiving, Advent, Christmas, we begin with Halloween this week.  How are you showing your neighbor your love?

AUDIO:  http://mysite.verizon.net/reso7rjy/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/2008-10-26.mp3

Picture 1: Wendy, Ray, & Celeste

Picture 2: Margie Duggan

Picture 3: Roseamry & Tom Fleming, Rob & Beth Robinson

 

 

Readings:

Jeremiah 31, 7-9,   Shout for joy, the Lord has delivered his people.

Psalm 126,    The Lord has done great things for us; we are filled with joy.

Hebrews  5, 1-6, Every high priest is taken from among people.

Mark 10, 46-52,  Bartimaeus, a blind man, sat by the road begging.   

 

           Grace says, "Welcome in, Everybody, Good to see you."

 

Jeremiah observations:

Who:  one of the Big 3 Prophets, 52 chapters, the “broken hearted prophet,” because he hated being so unpopular and having to condemn so much. 

Baruch, Jeremiah’s scribe seems to be who put down the prophet’s message.   Jeremiah probably died in Egypt.

When: put together before & during the B.C., Babylonian Captivity, say 555 before Christ  (reminder, Babylon is near present day Bagdad, Iraq).

Remember, too, that time before Christ is counting downward or backwards.

 

                And, of course, Genevieve says, "Hi, Everybody."

 

Interesting Side Note: (another reminder) can you guess when the Genesis story of creation in 7 days was composed?  Biblical research reveals that the creation story was put together during the Captivity, this same time, i.e. ca. 555.

Why?  The priests & prophets (e.g., Ezekiel) of the Jews in captivity determined that the people would not be assimilated into the local gene pool as their cousins in the northern kingdom had done when made to live with the Assyrians.  They decided they would establish customs & religious practices that would make the Jews so different they would not intermarry.  Three special laws were established: 1.  male circumcision; 2. dietary laws and laws about not touching menstruating women; and 3. the Sabbath.

 

            There he is, our most proficient camera man, usually just                  inside the entrance, Rick.

 

The priests put together the 7 day creation story to suggest that Yahweh approved of their Sabbath law.  They had Yahweh rest on the 7th day to bolster their demand that all Jews take a day off every 7 days.  Before the Babylonian Captivity there was no legislated Sabbath and no myth of Yahweh creating the world in 7 days with the 7th being a day of rest.  So, now you know when the story was created & by whom, the priests, and why, to keep the Jews united vs the Babylonians.  It worked, even down to today.

Subject of the work: the usual prophet message—condemn, pay, peace.

Today's subject: Beautiful message of peace and consolation.  It is coming.

Sources: Bishop John Shelby Spong, The sins of Scripture; Wikipedia

 

 

     We caught you, Shonda, hugging our pet gorilla.  He loves it.
 

What, Shout for Joy ?

The consoling readings today are summed up in that first line from Jeremiah, ‘Shout for Joy.’  Unless you are blind as Brartamaeus or as I am so often, you can get behind this shouting pretty easily. 

Let me propose 4 reasons why I shout for joy today and see if you can spot some of your own. 

First, the rain.  We just endured 3 months or more of drought.  The ground was dust.  I was sitting on our back porch Thursday night when it started.  At first I thought we were really going to get missed, despite all the weather reports to the contrary.

 

          The Best, Shonda (doing Air Force today), Bethany, & Ray.

 

However, we got 3 ½ inches that night.  Then 3 more on Friday and 3 again on Friday night, total 9 ½.  

The only negative for Rosemary & me was that an old roof leak that comes into our kitchen showed up again, even with the work we put into fixing it in the May rains.  Nevertheless, I shout for joy over the rain.

Secondly, Romeos on Friday.  Actually, a week ago I had a most interesting lunch.  None of the bums showed up.  I was alone.  ‘Out of town,’ they all said.  However this past Friday, wow, Mike and Bill and Ray all showed up.  Don’t tell them, but I was shouting for joy.

 

         The Team says, "We miss you, Georgie (at a swim meet).

 

Thirdly, I see every Sunday a bunch of no fear kids.  I love it when Leo or Emma or Harper walk around up here.  Let these kids know they have a cupcake waiting up here for them, and they come running, or dancing, as in the case of Leo. 

Yes, I’ve been told that when I put on the white alb, the kids think I am God.  My hope is that because I will not get mad at them and will welcome them, they will know that God does not get mad at them and welcomes them.  This was not the message that I and many of you got when we were little kids going to church. 

I shout for joy that these kids are here with us.

 

                                 "Hi, Tori, Keeping busy?"

 

Finally, picking up on the message in Hebrews about the priest, I shout for joy that I have lived the majority of my life as a priest.  I have always felt called to this vocation and I love it.   For me it has not been prestige but opportunity, like to do what we do here with the kids. 

I shout doubly because just when I might have had to put the opportunity on the shelf, you people invited me to carry on, what we have done together now for 11 years this Thanksgiving.

 

                                 Ace candle lighter, Cole.

 

There is so much I love, like doing weddings.  For example, the big, fun Lebanese wedding last Saturday.  It is a privilege to visit people who are sick and to give some peace to people getting ready to move to the other side, like Joan & Rita, Chuck & Curtis, and Fred. 

For this I shout for joy.

 

                                Fall has arrived in Dallas.

 

And You?  If you are not shouting for joy, are you deaf, or blind like Bartamaeus or me? 

For what do you shout for joy?

                  

 

 

Welcome, Terra, from Iran

 

Readings:

Jeremiah 38, 4-6, 8-10,  They took Jeremiah and threw him into the cistern.

Psalm 40,  Lord, come to my aid. 

Hebrews 12, 1-4,  Let us rid ourselves of every burden.

Luke 12, 49-53,  I have come to set the world on fire.

 

 

The Candle Lighting team in action.

 

Jeremiah Observations:

Author:  really Jeremiah or at least his scribe.

Date:  after the Babylonian Captivity again, say 555 years before Christ. Jeremiah sees the Babylonian catastrophe coming and says it is going to be how Yahweh punishes the people for their evil and unjust ways.

 

 

 

Blessed be The Lord, with David, Ben, Shonda, and Leo

 

Subject:  Jeremiah is the classic prophet.  He does the 3 things characteristic of a prophet.  He criticizes the behavior of the people.  He promises punishment from Yahweh.  He indicates that a better day will come.    Jeremiah lives to see the punishment, that is the Captivity.  Probably not the return from captivity.

Our selection:  Jeremiah pays the price of most real prophets.  The people are enraged, turn against him, and watch what happens.

 

 

Will somebody go sit with Sir charlie.

 

Why I love the J (as in Jewish Community Center vs Jesuit, an older love)

This morning I would like to talk about why I  love the J.  That is, as in the Jewish Community Center rather than my long time love, Jesuit.

This past Thursday morning before 6:00, more of less, I was in the big gym at the J.  Monday, Wednesday, & Friday I am in another wing of the complex to beat myself up at spin class with about 20 others.  I love it.

 

 

 

 

Welcome back, Richard

 

Tuesday, Thursday, & Saturday I work on ellipticals and punch a bag, all to maintain some control over the Parkinson’s.

This past Thursday I have just finished about 15 minutes on an elliptical as I see the next customer coming along, Rita.  I have known & loved Rita for a number of years.    She comes Tuesdays & Thursdays with the DART special bus.    She is an African American hug machine.   Despite me being a Catholic  and she a Jehovah Witness, she still hugs me and continues to pray and work for my conversion.

 

 

 

Welcome Home, Sandra, and sorry about the loss of your brother

 

While we are hugging on each other and I am helping Rita to get seated on the elliptical, along comes a very outgoing and friendly girl from our spin class, Lisa.  We all three get talking.  Lisa, who is somewhat new to spin class, but who knows everybody, she asks if I am still working (a compliment) and then what did I do.

 

 

Uh ho, Patricia is coming to sit with you, Sir Charlie.

                                                            

So what should I do?  Drop the bomb in this peaceful Jewish haven?  “Oh, I’m Catholic Jesuit priest excommunicated for getting married.”  I did it.   Lisa was so responsive and positive I was touched and humbled.  Rita already knew my background.  Then we had to split.

 

 

Leo miked up and right at home.

 

Reflecting later on the encounter, I was struck by what a precious event that was, a real God-like moment.  Here were 3 people, 2 women & one guy.  The woman who could have been our hostess was Lisa, who is Jewish.   The other woman, African American & a Jehovah Witness.  The guy, an excommunicated Catholic Jesuit.

 

 

 

Elevation time.

 

Meeting people like Rita and Lisa are why I love the J

Can we not meet and develop relationships with other people similar to Lisa & Rita?

 

 

Offertory Time with Tom & Denni & & Cheryl.